Newcomer that wants to go big for 2024!

[Auctioneer]

Greetings everyone! I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Paul, an auctioneer from Colorado, and while surfing YouTube I ran into a Tom betgeorge video and it blew my mind! I'm a techy guy who loves a good challenge, and try to stay up on the latest and greatest stuff, and I thought, well, I could do this! So I have delved into hours of YouTube videos, internet research, fibbing around this year looking at the couple displays we found online, etc. And it landed me here to ask for your help! I think I have a pretty good basic understanding of what's going on, but I still have a few questions I was hoping people here could clarify... I know that when I jump into something new, I tend to go a little overboard... so I think this will be a perfect fit! LOL. I'm asking for recommendations on equipment, want a few things that I don't know what they are called, and am very open to learning and taking advice. I do like to be thrifty and make my dollar go as far as possible, if that means waiting for the perfect time of year for sales and clearances in good with that. I don't know anybody around here that does these shows, so I have nobody to consult with. I'm thinking of spending in the neighborhood of 5-10K to get started for the first year, and hoping that will get us a good start for both Xmas and Halloween props as well as the multi use roof and window trims. When I've got into other hobbies (lots of them) I have found the saying "wish I knew now what I didn't know then" very true! I'd like to kick this off with the right gear the first time. With so many controllers and lights, companies, etc. I want to choose the right setup from the gate. Like today I stumbled on Mattos Evo pixels, and while lower energy, lower price, and ease of use sound great, I'm worried about things like the thin wires and having to do future repairs, add in a pixel don't sound as easy with them. I also see lots of controller options on wiredwatts, and it seems like the new falcon one seems to be the best, but I might not understand application, and how many controllers I will need. I guess I will need help with a laundry list of items needed based on my idea of what I would like to put together. So ultimately, I think I will be needy and have lots of questions. Hope this is the right place for this! Looking forward to any responses from people willing to help share experience with products, etc. And if anyone's from Colorado, would love some future initial setup and run thru... I think my post is long enough and hope to receive some great input! Thanks everyone and hope you all have successful shows!

 

[Dave]

Greetings everyone! I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Paul, an auctioneer from Colorado, and while surfing YouTube I ran into a Tom betgeorge video and it blew my mind! I'm a techy guy who loves a good challenge, and try to stay up on the latest and greatest stuff, and I thought, well, I could do this! So I have delved into hours of YouTube videos, internet research, fibbing around this year looking at the couple displays we found online, etc. And it landed me here to ask for your help! I think I have a pretty good basic understanding of what's going on, but I still have a few questions I was hoping people here could clarify... I know that when I jump into something new, I tend to go a little overboard... so I think this will be a perfect fit! LOL. I'm asking for recommendations on equipment, want a few things that I don't know what they are called, and am very open to learning and taking advice. I do like to be thrifty and make my dollar go as far as possible, if that means waiting for the perfect time of year for sales and clearances in good with that. I don't know anybody around here that does these shows, so I have nobody to consult with. I'm thinking of spending in the neighborhood of 5-10K to get started for the first year, and hoping that will get us a good start for both Xmas and Halloween props as well as the multi use roof and window trims. When I've got into other hobbies (lots of them) I have found the saying "wish I knew now what I didn't know then" very true! I'd like to kick this off with the right gear the first time. With so many controllers and lights, companies, etc. I want to choose the right setup from the gate. Like today I stumbled on Mattos Evo pixels, and while lower energy, lower price, and ease of use sound great, I'm worried about things like the thin wires and having to do future repairs, add in a pixel don't sound as easy with them. I also see lots of controller options on wiredwatts, and it seems like the new falcon one seems to be the best, but I might not understand application, and how many controllers I will need. I guess I will need help with a laundry list of items needed based on my idea of what I would like to put together. So ultimately, I think I will be needy and have lots of questions. Hope this is the right place for this! Looking forward to any responses from people willing to help share experience with products, etc. And if anyone's from Colorado, would love some future initial setup and run thru... I think my post is long enough and hope to receive some great input! Thanks everyone and hope you all have successful shows!

I would say don't jump in on a huge display to start with. This hobby can get very expensive and over whelming when new.
Sounds like you've done some good research to start with. I would recommend joining a few xLights facebook groups and reading through.

Bei Facebook anmelden

Melde dich bei Facebook an, um dich mit deinen Freunden, deiner Familie und Personen, die du kennst, zu verbinden und Inhalte zu teilen.

www.facebook.com

 

[fugley]

Forum list

AusChristmasLighting is a community for anyone interested in Christmas lighting, especially those who are keen to add a new level of awesome to their displays with animated lighting.

auschristmaslighting.com

 

[Auctioneer]

I would say don't jump in on a huge display to start with. This hobby can get very expensive and over whelming when new.
Sounds like you've done some good research to start with. I would recommend joining a few xLights facebook groups and reading through.

Bei Facebook anmelden

Melde dich bei Facebook an, um dich mit deinen Freunden, deiner Familie und Personen, die du kennst, zu verbinden und Inhalte zu teilen.

www.facebook.com

Thanks Dave! I knew I would hear alot of that, I just don't have it in me to take it slow.

 

[maht87]

You sound like me... I can't ever take things slow...

Brief background: I had been running Solid State Relay controlled normal Christmas lights for a few years before I discovered xlights. I decided to keep them and incorporate (using FPP on the Pi's that control them) into my show. They add to the depth of effect and it allows me to gradually transition them out as the show grows.

Here's what I started with my first year with xLights/pixels:
Controllers:
Kulp K32A-B with Beaglebone (Can use up to 4 power supplies (1 per 8 ports) and can handle either 5V or 12 or mixed.
Kulp K8-PB with Pocket Beagle
3 Falcon Differential Receivers (4 ports each)
Several Power Supplies (started with 5V, but 12V is easier and less power injection)
I used a bunch of cheap toolboxes to hold the differential receivers w/ power supplies
Bud Box for the K32
Cable box for the K8-PB

Props:
MegaTree (bought the cheaper DIY kit from Boscoyo, though if the budget allows, I'd recommend the Mattos kits.) - runs on 3 ports of one of the falcon differential receivers
24 strands x 50 Pixels (using the MegaTree mounting strips)
6 Candy Canes from Holiday Coro (99 pixels each)
Singing Tree (forget if it was from Boscoyo or HolidayCoro)
2 Snowflakes (HolidayCoro)
Tune To Sign - Boscoyo
18 DIY Pex Arches - Using WS2812B strip, PEX from Home Depot, 1/2 emt conduit, 3D Printed Brackets, rebar
Matrix - 1200 Pixels - I went a DIY route and used "Hardware Cloth" which is really the green pvc coated metal fencing material (perfect hole size for holding pixels) zip tied to EMT conduit.

2nd Year budget was tight, so I used some leftover pixels and strip to wrap around some old incandescent spiral trees I had.

3rd Year (this year):
House Outline (eaves, verticals, windows) - I used the Aluminum channel from HolidayCoro and 12V Pixels.
Added another 8 Port Falcon Differential receiver to run the left side of the house, and added 2 - 12V Power Supplies to my K32A-B Box to run the right side.

What would I do differently if starting over?
I'm a very DIY kinda person and often make things harder for myself. I ordered 5V pixels from various sellers on Amazon due to my impulsive nature. 5V are cheaper, but require much more power injection. These all had different connector ends (JST, small ray wu connector types, smaller x connect). I would stick to 1 connector type. I ended up spending a solid month soldering/heat shrinking cables for connections between prop and controller, between props, power injection, etc. I also had to make connector adaptor cables (ex: JST to small ray wu connector). I also used whatever cables I could get quickest, so I have a hodge podge of Thermostat wire, nice 3 wire round cable, 18 guage speaker wire (power injection). I would definitely recommend avoiding this.. I thought I'd save money going this route, but I'm sure I ended up spending more, and a ridiculous amount of time. Just get the pre made extension cables, power injection tees, etc. And stick to the same connector type. It will make life much easier...

I would recommend going 12V regulated over 5V. Again, less power injection. Since I started with 5V, I probably have 12 or 13 power injection points at my matrix and another 12-13 at the mega tree as an example.

Do what you're doing now by planning for it well in advance... I decided to start in October the first year, so it was chaos and I winged it, but everything still turned out great. No fires, no dead pixels, etc.

Also, build your props out in xLights ahead of time. The ones you plan to order, and anything you think you may want to add in the future. You will save yourself so much time by not having to redo your sequences each time you add a new prop.

Here's a video of one of the sequences on my show for visual.

 

[Auctioneer]

Hey maht87, this is exactly the kind of replies I'm looking for! Thank you for sharing. All great stuff. I do believe the 12v lights are the direction I want to go. Now, to decide if those Bullet type that I see everywhere are the safer way to go a far As maintenance when dealing with dead pixels, or are the Mattos Evo pixels the wave of the future. I need more data about this before pulling the trigger on buying a BUNCH of them. I even watched another 2 hours of YouTube last night, still trying to absorb it all. Looking at people showing the breakdown of their setups... so many questions like, how many controllers will I need? If it's 16 ports, can I run 16 props to it? And I'm not counting things like the mega tree, I understand it needs its own controller. Then I read you need a primary controller, then slave? The rest by cat6?? Or are those wifi ones the way to go? I thought someone said it takes away stability to your show, if that's the case, I will run all my own cat6e. I make many wires for the house and shop. Just need to be pushed down the right path... this just starts my list of questions, and I like your suggestion of building my display in xlights before I even order my props. I will be doing that this week! I guess I can surf all the sites to see the props that are available. Does anyone have the list of websites to check for props, and sites to stay away from? Annual sales that come up after the holidays? That would be very helpful! I only heard of Holliday coro, Boscoyo, and Gilbert engineering? Thank you and everyone else who can chime in!

 

[Auctioneer]

PS @maht87, thanks for sharing your show, love it!, looks great for a three year show, especially after what you said about hodge-podging it together! If you don't mind, can I ask about what you have wrapped up in it to make it look that good so far?

 

[maht87]

Hey maht87, this is exactly the kind of replies I'm looking for! Thank you for sharing. All great stuff. I do believe the 12v lights are the direction I want to go. Now, to decide if those Bullet type that I see everywhere are the safer way to go a far As maintenance when dealing with dead pixels, or are the Mattos Evo pixels the wave of the future. I need more data about this before pulling the trigger on buying a BUNCH of them. I even watched another 2 hours of YouTube last night, still trying to absorb it all. Looking at people showing the breakdown of their setups... so many questions like, how many controllers will I need? If it's 16 ports, can I run 16 props to it? And I'm not counting things like the mega tree, I understand it needs its own controller. Then I read you need a primary controller, then slave? The rest by cat6?? Or are those wifi ones the way to go? I thought someone said it takes away stability to your show, if that's the case, I will run all my own cat6e. I make many wires for the house and shop. Just need to be pushed down the right path... this just starts my list of questions, and I like your suggestion of building my display in xlights before I even order my props. I will be doing that this week! I guess I can surf all the sites to see the props that are available. Does anyone have the list of websites to check for props, and sites to stay away from? Annual sales that come up after the holidays? That would be very helpful! I only heard of Holliday coro, Boscoyo, and Gilbert engineering? Thank you and everyone else who can chime in!

I'm not familiar with the Evo pixels, but I've seen positive reviews in the various FB Groups I'm a part of. I just haven't looked that much into them.. The number of controllers you need will ultimately depend on your setup, which I know is a generic, if not cliche answer, lol. Starting out with something like a Kulp K32A-B would set you up for success. You can always run differential receivers off of it (with Cat 5/6). You can daisy chain props off of a single controller port, but there's a limitation on the number of pixels each port will support. I think it's 400-500 pixels, but I'm not 100% on that. A lot of people will run a port per 100 pixels or whatever they can get by without having to power inject. For my mega tree, I use 3 ports, so each are 400 pixels per port. For the 3 candy canes on each side of my sidewalk, I run them on a single port on the controller on that side of the sidewalk.

Having a primary controller is a good idea. My primary was one of my Pi 4s running the SSR controlled dumb christmas lights. The Pi's seem to make much better show players, but the Beaglebone would also do just fine. This year I created a dedicated VM on Proxmox for my FPP Show Player instance. Probably more complicated than most need, but since I had everything in place for other uses, I all I had to do was spin up a VM for FPP. It's stupid quick, but again, not practical for most people.

You're doing good with the Youtube watching. My first year, I watched a lot of Canispater Christmas and official xlights training videos. I'd have them playing in the background to listen to (not watching) while driving to/from work. I kinda learned through osmosis that way. Check out the resources page on xlights.org and definitely check out the xLights groups on FB. You'll get more detailed reponses to questions you may have on the FB groups than here, but I could be wrong. I just happened to randomly stumble upon this post, but I'm usually here looking for new sequences. Feel free to message me any other questions you have. My FB is Facebook'a Giriş Yap. You'll find this is a super helpful community.

 

[maht87]

PS @maht87, thanks for sharing your show, love it!, looks great for a three year show, especially after what you said about hodge-podging it together! If you don't mind, can I ask about what you have wrapped up in it to make it look that good so far?

Thanks! I tried to add it up a while back, but I don’t remember the exact figure. If I were to guess, maybe around $5k excluding the Pis, relays, outlet boxes, dumb Christmas lights, etc that I already had. The stuff I added this year was around $1600, which totaled around 1500 pixels. I’m sitting at 7605 pixels this year total. I think they say $1-1.25 per pixel is a good estimate. This figure factors in controllers, power supplies, props, cables, etc. After saying all that, it may be north of $5k.

 

[Auctioneer]

That is a good answer to know, once I figure out my props, then I'll know closer to what the damage will be LOL. about a buck per pixel

 

[fugley]

i would be shopping around for your pixels ... at the prices quoted in this thread and google your Evo pixels id be having another heart attack ... last pixels i brought within the last six months worked out to be a little over 19 cents each and im talking NZ dollars so youd be halfing that price (5000 = $990 NZD shipped free)
NO fails at all to date and have been left running through two thunderstorms

 

[Bryan Nimmo]

Greetings everyone! I'd like to introduce myself, my name is Paul, an auctioneer from Colorado, and while surfing YouTube I ran into a Tom betgeorge video and it blew my mind! I'm a techy guy who loves a good challenge, and try to stay up on the latest and greatest stuff, and I thought, well, I could do this! So I have delved into hours of YouTube videos, internet research, fibbing around this year looking at the couple displays we found online, etc. And it landed me here to ask for your help! I think I have a pretty good basic understanding of what's going on, but I still have a few questions I was hoping people here could clarify... I know that when I jump into something new, I tend to go a little overboard... so I think this will be a perfect fit! LOL. I'm asking for recommendations on equipment, want a few things that I don't know what they are called, and am very open to learning and taking advice. I do like to be thrifty and make my dollar go as far as possible, if that means waiting for the perfect time of year for sales and clearances in good with that. I don't know anybody around here that does these shows, so I have nobody to consult with. I'm thinking of spending in the neighborhood of 5-10K to get started for the first year, and hoping that will get us a good start for both Xmas and Halloween props as well as the multi use roof and window trims. When I've got into other hobbies (lots of them) I have found the saying "wish I knew now what I didn't know then" very true! I'd like to kick this off with the right gear the first time. With so many controllers and lights, companies, etc. I want to choose the right setup from the gate. Like today I stumbled on Mattos Evo pixels, and while lower energy, lower price, and ease of use sound great, I'm worried about things like the thin wires and having to do future repairs, add in a pixel don't sound as easy with them. I also see lots of controller options on wiredwatts, and it seems like the new falcon one seems to be the best, but I might not understand application, and how many controllers I will need. I guess I will need help with a laundry list of items needed based on my idea of what I would like to put together. So ultimately, I think I will be needy and have lots of questions. Hope this is the right place for this! Looking forward to any responses from people willing to help share experience with products, etc. And if anyone's from Colorado, would love some future initial setup and run thru... I think my post is long enough and hope to receive some great input! Thanks everyone and hope you all have successful shows!

Take all this advice that everyone has given you, and I'll my 2 cents. I did my first show this year because I finally accumulated enough parts and knowledge. I fell down the 5v rabbit hole due to discounts, so my weekends were spent redoing ends.

At some point your life will take over and prevent you from working your planned schedule and so will mother nature. My display didn't go live until 12/22 @1800 after I ran a 100ft Ethernet through a back window. This can consume a lot of time, friendships will be strained and family can be strained too.

So here's some parts advice
12v bullet pixels....X connect ends
Evo pixels are great, but the wires are too small for repair in my opinion. So I just leave the rest attached instead of cutting off. Plus I tried them in a trim product and it wasn't easy to get them in, kinda waiting for a Evo fit guarantee before I go further in.

Overall have fun, be prepared for setbacks, have a design and go with it. Reach out on all the forums, stick with a budget, spreadsheet out what you want, and then step back and brainstorm what else you need. My dad helped with mine and I can't stand to be around him, but I treasured the time because he wants to build his own tree next year and at his age, it gives him a thing to do in his retirement on days when he has nothing to do.

What did I learn this year, patience and perseverance and don't be quick draw mcgraw on buying extra things when you dont need them after a quick break and fix. I have a box from Amazon of 500 pixels...not used...but at regular half price...so I'll stomach the 5v again...

 

[maht87]

i would be shopping around for your pixels ... at the prices quoted in this thread and google your Evo pixels id be having another heart attack ... last pixels i brought within the last six months worked out to be a little over 19 cents each and im talking NZ dollars so youd be halfing that price (5000 = $990 NZD shipped free)
NO fails at all to date and have been left running through two thunderstorms

I didn't actually pay $1 per pixel, that'd be insane! This year, it was around $0.38/pixel for regulated 12V from Wired Watts, which is still high, but I decided to add last minute. The $1.00 figure is an average per pixel including cost of props, controllers, pixels, cables, power supplies, and everything else necessary. With that said, I'd look at group buys or buying direct from the main suppliers in China with slow boat shipping (Ray Wu and Paul Zhang are the only ones I can think of at the moment).

 

[fugley]

I didn't actually pay $1 per pixel, that'd be insane! This year, it was around $0.38/pixel for regulated 12V from Wired Watts, which is still high, but I decided to add last minute. The $1.00 figure is an average per pixel including cost of props, controllers, pixels, cables, power supplies, and everything else necessary. With that said, I'd look at group buys or buying direct from the main suppliers in China with slow boat shipping (Ray Wu and Paul Zhang are the only ones I can think of at the moment).

yeah my bad... when i read that again i see what youve done there
Maxtronics had know problems with them ... better prices without having to screw them down and by picking your deals and shipping is free (NOT A SLOW BOAT)
below was 5000 5v (when Power Balancing id go with 5V any day)

 

[Auctioneer]

yeah my bad... when i read that again i see what youve done there
Maxtronics had know problems with them ... better prices without having to screw them down and by picking your deals and shipping is free (NOT A SLOW BOAT)
below was 5000 5v (when Power Balancing id go with 5V any day)
View attachment 1051

Thank you for the info! I went to that website, and Holy crap! They have everything, but I just don't know which lights to pick, there must be a thousand different ones... I even see power supplies by the 10 pack! Makes them only like $19 bucks a piece. I may have to spend some time figuring out what to do.

 

[Auctioneer]

Take all this advice that everyone has given you, and I'll my 2 cents. I did my first show this year because I finally accumulated enough parts and knowledge. I fell down the 5v rabbit hole due to discounts, so my weekends were spent redoing ends.

At some point your life will take over and prevent you from working your planned schedule and so will mother nature. My display didn't go live until 12/22 @1800 after I ran a 100ft Ethernet through a back window. This can consume a lot of time, friendships will be strained and family can be strained too.

So here's some parts advice
12v bullet pixels....X connect ends
Evo pixels are great, but the wires are too small for repair in my opinion. So I just leave the rest attached instead of cutting off. Plus I tried them in a trim product and it wasn't easy to get them in, kinda waiting for a Evo fit guarantee before I go further in.

Overall have fun, be prepared for setbacks, have a design and go with it. Reach out on all the forums, stick with a budget, spreadsheet out what you want, and then step back and brainstorm what else you need. My dad helped with mine and I can't stand to be around him, but I treasured the time because he wants to build his own tree next year and at his age, it gives him a thing to do in his retirement on days when he has nothing to do.

What did I learn this year, patience and perseverance and don't be quick draw mcgraw on buying extra things when you dont need them after a quick break and fix. I have a box from Amazon of 500 pixels...not used...but at regular half price...so I'll stomach the 5v again...

Awesome! Thank you for your valued input. I'm definitely doing my research before I place some large orders.

 

[fugley]

Thank you for the info! I went to that website, and Holy crap! They have everything, but I just don't know which lights to pick, there must be a thousand different ones... I even see power supplies by the 10 pack! Makes them only like $19 bucks a piece. I may have to spend some time figuring out what to

biggest problem youll every have is working out if you should go with 5v or 12v and then once you go with what ever that decision was youll second guess yourself woundering if it was the right decision
when i comes to power suppiles there wouldnt be many poeple arguing over whats best or not (this is what make your show come alive) 99% will use meanwell 350 altho there is a new 600 watt series out

some links to help the info over load
MegaTree Calculator
Pixel Light Power Calculator
Aus Christmas Lighting youll find any and all help there 24/7
101 Light Manual (must read for starting out)

 

[Auctioneer]

Ok thank you. I'll read all those links. Going 12v for sure

 

[sslupsky]

Ok thank you. I'll read all those links. Going 12v for sure

Educate yourself on the risks involved with using 12V pixels. There is a greater risk of fire particularly if you are not careful and knowledgeable about electrical safety.

 

[hakko808]

Maybe just get a kit. Plug & Play Light Show Christmas Package (FREE SHIPPING)